[00:00:00] RUTH WERWAI: I do wonder sometimes if part of the problem is I overthink it, because I tend to do that and also because I get, you know, sometimes over-invested in book topics.
ANNE BOGEL: What? I want to say no such thing, and yet also I think I understand what you're talking about.
Hey readers, I'm Anne Bogel, and this is What Should I Read Next?. Welcome to the show that's dedicated to answering the question that plagues every reader, what should I read next? We don't get bossy on this show. What we will do here is give you the information you need to choose your next read. Every week we'll talk all things books and reading and do a little literary matchmaking with one guest.
[00:00:50] Readers, today I'm joined by a guest who is looking for titles to help bridge the large geographic gap between her and her sister. Ruth Werwai hails from Vancouver, Canada, but she's lived in Germany with her family for over a decade.
Recently, she and her sister have created a book club of two as they've found that reading books together helps them feel close even while they're physically far apart. But when it comes to finding the right books, Ruth is feeling a bit stymied. A few recent selections have been, in Ruth's words, flops, and she's worried she's overthinking it.
That specific conundrum is what brings Ruth to What Should I Read Next? today. She would love to feel more confident about recommending books for them that both she and her sister will enjoy. And since they use these books to spark conversation, it's important that the selected titles not only reflect their diverse reading tastes, but also give them plenty to talk about.
[00:01:43] Today, Ruth and I will try to suss out where their reading tastes overlap, and I hope to recommend titles that will make for ideal sister book club picks. Let's get to it.
Ruth, welcome to the show.
RUTH: Hi, Anne. Thanks so much for having me.
ANNE: Oh my gosh, it's my pleasure. I remember just grinning real big reading your submission, thinking, "Oh, we could have a fun conversation." So thanks for coming on so we can do that today.
RUTH: Yeah, I'm so glad to hear that, and I really can't wait to dive in.
ANNE: I know you've been listening for a long time. I hope it feels... well, how does it feel to be in this seat today?
RUTH: It honestly feels really, really great. I have been listening for quite a while since the beginning, actually, on and off. But yeah, I remember just thinking, from the very first episode that I heard, "This is going to be a really great show." And I think, yeah, you have now like 10 years to back that up. So it feels really, really great to have an actual conversation with you after listening to you in my headphones so long.
ANNE: Oh, well, that is so kind. I'm glad we're finally getting to meet like this in a different way. You get to be in my ears instead of me just being in yours.
RUTH: Yeah, exactly.
[00:02:48] ANNE: Well, Ruth, would you tell us a little bit about yourself? We would like to give our readers a glimpse of who you are.
RUTH: I am originally from Vancouver, Canada, but I've been living in Germany with my husband and my son for the last 14 to 15 years. I live in a small town pretty much right in the middle of the country. It's called Marburg. It's a university town. There's just under 80,000 people that live here. It's very cute. It's kind of what I think a lot of North Americans picture in their mind when they picture Germany.
ANNE: The town square and the clock tower and the half-timbered buildings.
RUTH: Yes, exactly. There's an old town that's sort of built up on a mountain and then on the top of... well, it's a hill, not a mountain. But on the top of the hill is a castle. So, yeah, it's quite picturesque.
ANNE: Oh, it sounds lovely. I got to visit my son who was studying abroad in Germany. Oh, gosh, I guess now that we're in 2026, it was almost two years ago. I mean, ever since we landed in the U.S. again, I've been eager to get back.
[00:03:50] RUTH: Oh, nice. It's good. I'm really happy living here right now. We are really enjoying the close proximity to a lot of other countries to travel around. We're also a bilingual family, so we speak both German and English at home, kind of depending on everybody's mood or often who starts the conversation. It's really nice. I quite enjoy that. But yes. I live here now.
I guess I would describe myself kind of as a lifelong reader, but also a lifelong learner. I love learning new things. It kind of has defined my professional life and also my personal life. I have a lot of hobbies. In a nutshell, I'm basically a working mom who's trying to balance all the different commitments with family, friends, and everything that you have to do also with everything you want to do and all your hobbies.
ANNE: Yes, that is relatable. Ruth, tell us about your reading life.
[00:04:44] RUTH: Reading has definitely been probably my longest passion and hobby. I would say ever since I was little, actually, when I watched the Beauty and the Beast movie, and there's the scene where Belle is swinging on a ladder across a bookshelf, that was for me like... I just fell in love with that scene. I wanted a bookshelf with a ladder and kind of dreaming about that.
I used to go to the library a lot as a kid. I actually originally wanted to be a librarian, which didn't happen, but you never know. And honestly, I feel like just since my childhood, I never really stopped. I kind of just grew my love of reading and also kind of my commitment to it, I would say.
I also feel like in the past five years, I really hit a stride. I kind of landed on a good feel for my reading life with how many books I'm reading. I'm really happy actually right now. I don't really want to read more, but also not less. I'm sort of now bouncing around between print books, audio, and digital, and that's also really good.
[00:05:46] That was a big adjustment actually since moving here, because when I first moved here, it was quite hard for me to find a lot of books in English. So that really forced me to try reading digitally, which I did not think I would like and ended up loving. Tried audiobooks, which again, I did not think would be for me, but definitely are. So, yeah, that's been really great.
ANNE: I'm glad to hear it. Ruth, you've been a listener for a long time. What brings you to the show at this season of your life?
RUTH: I think actually it kind of goes back to what I was just saying about I feel like I've kind of hit a stride for my own personal reading life. I'm really happy with how things are. I also feel like I'm trying a lot of new things for my own self. I am always looking to read more diversely, to read more widely, read a lot of books in translation if I can. So I'm always kind of pushing my own reading boundaries and finding new content for myself.
[00:06:39] But I have kind of a new struggle that's been introduced to my reading life. Actually, it's not a struggle. It's a very good thing, but it brought some challenges with it. And that is that a couple of years ago, I started doing buddy reading with my sister. Actually, how this started is she came to visit me and she... my sister is also... she's really been a reader a bit more off and on. So she kind of had a break where she wasn't that into reading, but then recently moved down the street from a public library branch. And that just really kind of set her off again, which of course I was really excited about and wanted to involve myself in and support, I guess you could say.
Anyway, she was visiting me and we decided to try listening to audiobook together. And kind of at random, we picked Yearbook by Seth Rogen. And this was such a fun experience to listen to this audiobook together. I mean, I'm from Vancouver, she lives in Vancouver. There's a lot of Vancouver moments in there that just added a kind of extra layer, but also it's just really funny.
[00:07:45] So I remember us sitting on the couch in my living room and one of us rolling down onto the floor because we were laughing so hard. Sometimes these things are funnier also when you experience them with other people. So, yeah. And then she went home again. I try and stay in touch with as much of my family that I can, but it's not always easy, especially because I'm the one who's living somewhere else and they're kind of all together. So, you know, you really got to stay on top of texting and FaceTime and all these really amazing digital tools that we have for connection.
But I was kind of thinking, "Maybe we can bring reading into that to add another layer of it." So yeah, so we decided to start doing these buddy reads together. It's not really a book club. It's very low stakes. We sometimes don't even read them synchronously. Basically, we kind of just pick a book that we both want to read and we commit to reading that and we try and read it around the same time as each other. But sometimes she gets it from the library, has to read it really fast, and I haven't managed to get it yet. And so I kind of catch up. And that's totally fine.
[00:08:51] ANNE: Okay, so you're enjoying this. We've heard about the joys. What have more of the challenges been?
RUTH: While I really, I feel confident picking books for myself, I've had some struggles picking books for this buddy reading. Actually, my sister she's a little better at it. I do wonder sometimes if part of the problem is I overthink it because I tend to do that and also because I get sometimes over-invested in book topics.
ANNE: What? I want to say no such thing, and yet also, I think I understand what you're talking about.
RUTH: Yeah, the stakes feel so high. Whereas she's kind of able to like hop into the library or the bookstore and take a look at what looks interesting and then suggest two or three things, and I'm like researching over here and thinking about themes and styles before I make a suggestion.
ANNE: Ooh, okay. So there's really throwing yourself into the pleasure of choosing, but there's also maybe feeling clenched up and unhelpfully rigid. Am I just projecting?
[00:09:50] RUTH: I mean, it could be. I think it's the overthinking aspect. I kind of try and bring all these aspects into a choice that I make rather than sometimes just spontaneously saying, "Oh, this looks good. Let's just give it a try." Because I want to be picking books that she's going to enjoy, but also that I'm going to enjoy. It's hard to hit that balance sometimes.
ANNE: Okay. Ruth, I'm really excited about this challenge question. I'm excited to suss out what's going on here. I'd love to hear about the books you chose for today. Because you told me in your submission how you chose them. I think that's going to be really helpful. And then we'll suss out what else we need to know in order to find some books that you'll enjoy hopefully reading together next. Is that our plan here? Does that feel good?
RUTH: That feels great. Yeah. And indeed, I did choose these ones very much with both of our reading taste in mind.
[00:10:44] ANNE: Oh, that sounds perfect. Well, you know how this works. Then you're going to tell me about three books you both enjoyed, a book that wasn't right for you, and what you've been reading lately, and then we'll see where it takes us. What's the first book you chose that represents what you all have both enjoyed?
RUTH: The first book that I chose is actually one that we read before we started doing the buddy read, but it was just such a good experience. And really I just felt like it was very representative. So I threw it in here anyways. And that is Everything I Know About Love by Dolly Alderton. We've also read one of her novels together. So she's an author that both of us really like. She's also around-
ANNE: Which one, Ruth? You can slide in next to her title.
RUTH: Okay. Yeah, we've read Good Material.
ANNE: Oh, okay. That seems like a great pick based on what I know about your submission that the readers haven't heard yet.
[00:11:41] RUTH: Yes. Yeah. So it was great. It kind of hit that character-driven, but also quirky humor aspect, which is another thing that my sister really likes. She's very much into comedy. And that one's also quite funny. So, yeah, that one really worked as well for us.
ANNE: I'm glad to hear it. What format did y'all do that in?
RUTH: For the novel, Good Material, we read the print book. And then for the memoir, Everything I Know About Love, I did the audio, and I'm pretty sure that she did as well.
ANNE: Okay. I was curious about the format because you had talked about how you didn't think audio would for you, but it really has. And I just so happened to listen to Dolly Alderton read Everything I Know About Love and thought it was really lovely in that format. But I read the e-galley of Good Material. I read that on my Kindle.
[00:12:29] RUTH: Yeah, I agree that the audio for Everything I Know About Love, honestly, I have a very clear memory of this. Actually, it's similar to the other audiobook that I was talking about. So I read this... It was in the pandemic. It was a lockdown Christmas, and I was in the kitchen, I remember, cooking dinner for my family, and I had to stop because I was laughing so hard. It's right at the beginning where she's talking about her experience using MSN Messenger. It was just so funny.
I think that's one part of the reason why this book worked for us. It was very relatable. I mean, Dolly is a similar age to the two of us. So, yeah, a lot of the things that she talked about growing up or the time when she left school and started at university, this was all a similar timeframe to our own experience. So I think that added another layer of enjoyment.
But I would say one of the big things and the big reasons that this worked, memoir actually tends to work quite well for us. And this one, I think, worked really well also because, I mean, when you look at it, obviously, it's Dolly Alderton's own story, but the central relationship at the core of this book is really her friendship with her childhood best friend and this layer of female friendship.
[00:13:40] I remember there's one quote in the book where she says something along the lines of, your love for the other person doesn't change, but the format of it does and the way it looks. I feel like that was really actually representative of what it means also to be a sister. You have a different kind of love when you're a kid and that love is the same, but it just looks different and shows up at different points in your life. So this one was definitely five stars from both of us.
ANNE: Okay. Noted on the sister story as well. Both kind of like a found/created sister relationship. But I remember her best friend's sister being a prominent character in this book. Am I remembering that correctly?
RUTH: Yeah. I actually hadn't even thought about that. Yeah. It has been a little while since I read it, but indeed. Good point.
ANNE: Okay. All right. We'll make a note of that. Ruth, what's the second book you both loved?
[00:14:36] RUTH: This was actually my favorite book of 2025 and also I think my sister's. And that is Kakigori Summer by Emily Itami. Have you read this book, Anne?
ANNE: I have. I have. I love her. I mean, she has two novels so far and I'm ready for another one already, but I've loved her work.
RUTH: I also read her previous novel, Fault Lines, but this one, especially to me, it felt like a hug. When I finished the book, I just wanted to hug it. It's a very warmhearted story. It's about three sisters, grownup sisters who are living all... well, one of them lives in England, two of them are in Tokyo, I think, but they have all kind of left their childhood home. There's a family crisis, which I won't say exactly what it was, but basically brings all the sisters together and they end up back in their childhood home, living across the street from their grandmother and coming across and back in contact with childhood acquaintances and also with each other, because they have been apart for quite a while. And just navigating some difficult emotional moments, but also just being together.
[00:15:49] Just for me personally, I really enjoyed the perspective of the oldest sister who is living abroad. And when she comes home, at the beginning of the book when she flies from London to Tokyo and just how she describes that experience of arriving back in Tokyo was super, I thought, super well done and incredibly relatable. So I really liked that aspect as well.
ANNE: Ruth, this novel is a little quieter than the picture I've gotten from your submission and what you've said off the record about what your sister enjoys. Would you say more about how this connected for each of you?
RUTH: Indeed, I think, for me, it was quite obvious it's a very character-driven novel and I really like that. I like often slower books and ones that kind of dive more deep into why people make the decisions that they do. I often say I don't actually need the book to have that much of a plot. I mean, I enjoy books with plot for sure, but if it's not there, it's not a deal-breaker for me.
[00:16:50] For my sister, it actually tends to be kind of the opposite. She loves very twisty, sort of mystery thriller books, really books that keep you guessing to the end. Obviously, I can't speak for her, but my feeling for why this would work is that it wasn't necessarily like a romance where you know, "Okay, this is going to be a happy ending. These two people are most likely going to get together and now we just figure out how."
This one was kind of diving more into layers of the characters, but also you weren't really sure the whole time where it was going. You know, how are these characters going to resolve? You hope for a happy ending, but I feel like maybe it wasn't quite so obvious from the beginning how we were going to get there.
ANNE: That's a great example. Thank you. Ruth, what's the third book you both love?
RUTH: Famous Last Words from Gillian McAllister. Actually, I could have put probably any of Gillian McAllister's books in to this third slot. This is just the one that we most recently read together because yeah, her books have all been like five stars from both of us.
[00:17:56] Actually, I think this really illustrates the point that I was kind of talking about before where we have in these books. So they're thrillers and there's a lot of stuff going on with the plot, but there's also a lot of stuff going on with the characters and they are about the mystery, but they're also about motherhood and marriage and being a human and kind all that stuff sort of layers in together.
This one is about Camilla and she is just going back to work after maternity leave. It's actually the morning where she's returning to the office, she wakes up and her husband is not there. So it's a bit strange, a bit unusual, but you know, she has to continue on with her morning, take her child to daycare and get herself to the office.
And before she leaves the house, she notices he's left her a note, but she's kind of not really sure what does this note mean, not really sure what to do with that. So she heads out for the day to kind of, you know, take down her to-do list and kind of put this thought in her mind, what's going on. And then when she gets to work on the news, there's a hostage situation that unfolds and it turns out her husband is involved. This is obviously very surprising.
[00:19:08] The novel kind of walks us through what happened. Not only what happened on that day, but also what happened in the previous weeks leading up to this and then carries on several years into the future. So yeah, this was, I think, because of the plot aspects and also the character elements and also the romance. I saw somebody, I think, on Instagram that said this was a book that didn't know if it wants to be a thriller or a romance. And I think actually that kind of hits on the point of why it works for both of us.
ANNE: That's so interesting. When I saw you both enjoy Gillian McAllister, it made intuitive sense. I understand how any book of hers would have worked. We'll talk more about that, I think. Ruth, tell me about a book that was not a good fit. And is this also for both of you?
RUTH: Yes, it is. And this is one that I picked. Both of the last two books that I shared that we read this summer, so the Emily Itami one and Gillian McAllister, my sister picked those. And I picked Bear by Julia Phillips. And this one did for either of us.
[00:20:08] There was definitely some good elements to it. So I would not say, of course... I don't hate this book. I also wouldn't say that nobody should read it. I think in a lot of cases, it could work quite well. It has a beautiful setting. The writing is also quite solid. I didn't have any qualms there. But I think for both of us, it just kind of fell flat. The plot to me, I was sort of missing some elements. But also on the characters, I felt there was not really... I don't need to love characters or even like them. But in this case, I didn't understand them. I didn't really understand their motivation. So, yeah, I think that's kind of where it fell apart.
ANNE: Ruth, I'm kind of building out a theory in my head. And if you could just say a little bit more about how this book didn't connect with your sister and yourself, that would be really helpful to let me know if I'm headed in the right direction or not. I'm wondering if the emotional resonance I'm really hearing coming through the books you loved was absent here.
[00:21:07] RUTH: I think there's a very good chance that that was the case. I think that in this case, we have two sisters. They live on a small island off the coast of Washington, just south of Vancouver Island. They're kind of stuck there. They've been planning for quite a while to leave. And then through the course of events, they end up staying. A big catalyst for this is that a bear shows up on the island and sort of changes the way that the sisters interact with each other, the way that one of them definitely thinks about the island. They're no longer on the same page about this plan for the future.
I think what was really missing is, for me, there was not a lot of understanding with the characters' motivations. So we see their actions, but I didn't really feel like I knew why. I also felt like you see their relationship playing out and some parts definitely were believable, but indeed, I don't think... the relationship between them didn't really resonate. And I think the lack of character development and really characters that you feel like you could root for and the lack of an interesting plot, I think kind of made it fall apart in our case.
[00:22:17] ANNE: Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. Ruth, what have you been reading lately?
RUTH: I, again, picked some books that we've been doing buddy reads of lately. In the fall, just before Christmas, we did Wild Dark Shore along with half of the rest of the world by Charlotte McConaghy. That one was, again, five stars from both of us. It was very good.
ANNE: Plotty, surprising, emotionally resonant.
RUTH: Yeah, pretty much. And then we did Sisters in the Wind by Angeline Boulley. Actually, I finished this one, I don't know that she has, but that was indeed so far so good. I've read all of Angeline Boulley's books. So when I saw this one come out, I thought maybe it would be interesting one to try the two of us.
And then the new one that we're planning to start I got given as a gift for Christmas, and then she found at the library is The Ministry of Time by Kaliane Bradley. I'm only just starting it, but so far the premise looks really intriguing. And I think it will be fun to try something kind of in a different genre than we've tried before. So, yeah, we'll see how it goes with that one.
[00:23:26] ANNE: Ruth, so we are going to use those books and what you said about them that you brought to the show to find some books your sister and you will both enjoy.
RUTH: That sounds amazing.
ANNE: Okay. And you said that you'd love them to spark conversation and bring you closer across the long distance.
RUTH: Yeah, indeed. I think obviously not every book is going to be a five-star book, but I think if we can both at least be in the realm of enjoying it, then I think we're completely on the right page. And I think what you said about emotional resonance is really interesting to me. I hadn't actually really picked that up. But I'm excited to see what ideas you have and also maybe to learn from some of that so I can kind of maybe in the future overthink a little bit less when I'm making the suggestions.
[00:24:23] ANNE: Oh, I would love that for you. Okay. And then you also said in your submission that your sister prefers plot-driven twisty novels, mysteries and thrillers that surprise you, and that you're into moody character-driven literary fiction and also poetry and romance.
RUTH: Yeah. On paper, it doesn't sound like there's a lot of crossover, but-
ANNE: Wait, what? I think we got plenty. I'm really excited about what you all could read together.
RUTH: Okay. That's good, though. That's really good to know. But indeed, I think that's the general summary. I think obviously there's exceptions to that, but yeah.
ANNE: Okay. Well, and you did say that you both have really enjoyed memoirs. And also you said off the record so far that you lovingly refer to your sad millennial girl fiction that you both tend to enjoy.
RUTH: Oh, yes. I totally forgot about that. Indeed.
ANNE: You want to say more?
[00:25:15] RUTH: Well, I feel like these sad millennial girl books, what I call them, they also tend to be quite funny, which... I mean, not all of them, but they have their moments of humor. I don't know if you know the show Fleabag, but it's kind of-
ANNE: I loved Fleabag.
RUTH: Oh, okay.
ANNE: Readers talked to me into finally watching that, I think just last winter.
RUTH: Oh, okay. Oh, nice. We both really love that. And anything that has sort of Fleabag vibes where it's not actually funny, but it's humorous, those books also really work quite well.
ANNE: Okay. Fleabag vibes. You said bonus points for stories featuring siblings?
RUTH: Yes. It's definitely not a must.
ANNE: Noted.
RUTH: But we have tended to enjoy that.
ANNE: Well, I got to narrow it down because the options are abundant. I'm going to be looking for that. Also, tell me about being interested in reading more books not originally written in English. Is that just you or also your sister?
RUTH: I would say we should probably leave that one out.
ANNE: Because?
RUTH: Because it's quite from left field. I don't know. I also didn't talk with her about that if she's also interested in that. I mean, I don't know. What do you think? Is it too much?
ANNE: I don't know. Let's find out.
RUTH: Okay.
[00:26:23] ANNE: Okay. All right. I'm really excited for you. I feel like you'll have options. Ruth, the books you all have both enjoyed: Everything I Know About Love by Dolly Alderton, Kakigori Summer by Emily Itami, and Famous Last Words, and basically every other novel you've both read by Gillian McAllister. Bear by Julia Phillips, not a good fit for either one of you. Lately, you have read Wild Dark Shore by Charlotte McConaghy, and yes, quite a popular choice, Sisters in the Wind by Angeline Boulley, although your sister isn't finished yet, but that's okay, and The Ministry of Time by Kaliane Bradley. And we're looking for books that you both may enjoy together.
Really, that sister stories really helps me hone in because I'm thinking about well-crafted, richly textured, emotionally resonant fiction and also memoir. And I feel like there's a lot of overlap in how the story feels, even though the genre would be, you know, different fiction versus non.
[00:27:25] And let's not forget books not originally written in English would be kind of nice. Let's start out there and then work our way back to more solid ground.
RUTH: That sounds great.
ANNE: That's not how I usually do it because it feels riskier, but I feel like you have so much to choose from. Okay, I'm thinking about Valérie Perrin, the French novelist, specifically because there's a sibling though not sister element, Forgotten on Sunday. That was actually her debut novel. It was published back in 2015, but it was just published in English for the first time a couple years ago.
If you've read her work or are familiar with it, I'm imagining it's because of Fresh Water for Flowers, which really became an international sensation a few years ago, and she said changed her whole writing career in life. Do you know anything about this author or these works?
[00:28:17] RUTH: I have heard of Fresh Water for Flowers, but I honestly just kind of added it to my list at the time. I remember being quite intrigued, but I did not get to it yet. So I really don't know much.
ANNE: I say this with respect and also I'm striving for clarity. There are big fireworks events that some readers are going to find really melodramatic in these pages. And I'm wondering if the combination of the work in translation, the French sensibility, the excellent prose... I don't know what it's like to read originally in French. I can only talk about food and shopping. But her work has been praised in the original language. The translation is Hildegarde Serle is a master. But I wonder of this combination of intricate plotting, really beautiful craftsmanship for you, and also just like sensational fireworks in the plot is going to work for both of you.
[00:29:12] The story spans a century. It starts in like 1919 after World War I and runs to just before the book was published. So like the early 2010s. And we go back and forth. Actually, we don't just go back and forth, we move through time.
So, in the present day, we have this 21-year-old woman whose name is Justine and she works at a retirement home in a small French village. And she's always wanted to be a carer like they call them there. And she loves hearing the elderly resident's life stories. And they love her because they feel loved and cared for and treated with respect and kindness.
Justine has her favorite resident. Her name is Hélène, and she's been slowly telling her great love story to Justine. And because of what she hears from Hélène, Justine begins to explore the secrets of her own past, which as readers will discover are numerous and run through her entire life and they are gutting. Now, my friend and novelist, Marybeth Whelan said once, maybe she was talking about TV, maybe she was talking about books, I don't know. But she says like, everything is about setup and payoff.
[00:30:22] And Perrin does an incredible job here with setting up the main events of the story in past and present storyline, but especially in Justine's present-day life story, and how it pays off in a big, dramatic, gut-wrenching way in the end.
But I feel like the story is French, it's beautifully told, and while it does have heartbreaking truths built into the very foundation of the story, it also has strong elements of hopefulness. Now, reasons that people really are drawn to Perrin's book is she... always? I think always, features strong, life-giving, intergenerational relationships, really thorny, intricate family dynamics, and also lots of pain, but lots of hope to go with it.
But Justine, because both her parents were killed in a car accident when she was little, actually her parents and her aunts and uncle, she and her cousin were raised together, but they were raised as siblings. And they're not sisters, but that sibling relationship is intrinsic to the heart and meaning of the story. How does this sound to you?
[00:31:34] RUTH: Honestly, it sounds amazing. I really like what you're saying about the big payoff and kind of the build-up waiting for that. I think that is very intriguing. I like the aspect of a sibling relationship, but in a bit of a different way. 100% I think we should definitely give this a try.
ANNE: Okay. I'm glad to hear it. Another work in translation I like for you, but I don't like quite as much, is The Good Life by Virginie Grimaldi. It's also translated from the French by Hildegarde Serle, but it is a sister story about two sisters who've been estranged for five years. They're now approaching middle age, but after their grandmother dies and their grandmother practically raised them, they reunite at their grandmother's home in Spain.
So, beautiful setting that's fun to spend a week at with these sisters. But they do, they spend a week together in preparation for the home being sold, and they look back and reflect on their entire, often painful childhood and life together and then apart and start to understand what happened in each other in new ways.
[00:32:40] That one's a little quieter, but it does have that reflection, that bond as it changes, evolves, alters, changes context throughout the years. And it does have moments of humor to punctuate the tough stuff, because there is really tough stuff. They were raised in an abusive home, and it's hard some of the stuff they need to go look back at, and they cope with humor. And you get to enjoy that too. I don't like that as much, but if Forgotten on Sunday really works for you, and you want more of that flavor, that could be a good one.
RUTH: Sounds intriguing for sure. I think it definitely sounds like something up my alley. I like the aspect also that the sisters are already a bit older, and then they're kind of processing things, but coming together to do that, I think it sounds really interesting.
ANNE: Okay, good. I'm glad to hear that. Next, I'm wondering about something that feels like, look, we never want to directly match, if you like this, then you should read that, but a book that is most akin to Gillian McAllister, and that's a Flynn Berry novel called Trust Her. Have you perhaps read this, or the huge bestseller, Northern Spy?
[00:33:47] RUTH: No, I haven't even heard of actually either of those.
ANNE: Gosh, that makes me really happy, actually. I'm delighted to introduce you. Trust Her is the one that I love the idea of you and your sister reading together. It's a standalone companion to the 2021 bestseller, Northern Spy, but you do not need to read both these books. You do not need to read them in order. They are both excellent on audio. That's worth noticing for you, Ruth, and for any audiophiles in our audience.
But the basic question Flynn Berry's raising here is, what does the Irish Republican Army's activity look like in the post-Brexit era, and how specifically are women involved, and why are they involved in domestic terrorism? That's what she says her whole premise is.
[00:34:33] I was really drawn in by the storytelling style. Berry drops you right into the middle of the action, where you are with a woman named Tessa, who's driving home after a swim on the coast. And she's just had this quiet, peaceful day to herself, and she's driving home on this deserted stretch of Irish highway when she realizes, oh, there's a big black car coming up quick behind her, and she's suddenly rear-ended by some scary dudes in the car, and it takes her a minute to realize exactly what's happening, but it's this.
Despite her relocation and her new identity, the IRA has found her, and they give her an ultimatum in short order. She has to persuade her MI5 handler to become an informant, or someone she loves will die. And she knows they mean it because of her history.
I live in the United States. I live in Kentucky. I am not well-schooled in the history and current activities of the IRA, but my mind kept going back to excellent works I've read and enjoyed before in the whole world of literature and non-fiction surrounding the Troubles and the Aftermath.
[00:35:38] I kept thinking of Louise Kennedy's Trespasses, which I think you may really enjoy, but I don't know that Beth would, and also Patrick Radden Keefe's non-fiction work is Say Nothing. They're both about the Troubles. But Berry's work is basically set in the present day. And readers are going to feel all kinds of ways about how the story resolves, and you may love it, you may hate it. Either way, it's highly discussable, and your reaction will teach you a lot about your taste in books.
But Tessa has a sister and they love each other dearly, and that is the tie that she is most strongly considering as she considers what is the right thing to do by herself, by her child, by her sister, by her family, by her country. How does that sound?
RUTH: Okay, it sounds amazing. I have to say, when you said like the central question of the book, and then you kind of dove in, that was really not where I was expecting to go, so that's really exciting. I actually have Trespasses. I got it for Christmas, and I was thinking like, "Ooh, do I ask Beth if we read this together?" So I like the additional insight there. But I think it could be fun maybe to read this one with her, and then also read Trespasses myself. But yeah, this sounds incredible, like going on the list right away.
[00:36:51] ANNE: Now, you and your sister know each other best, but if Trespasses was going to work for both of you, I think it would be after Trust Her, where you already have this context, hopefully this interest, this background information, as then you enter Louise Kennedy's work set decades ago, and go back and see more of the origins of what's still ongoing in the contemporary work Trust Her. I mean, Trespasses just came out a few years ago, but she's writing about a different era.
RUTH: Yeah. But indeed, that sounds really fun. And I do like those sort of... it's like very nerdy, those, you know, connections where you can kind of build one book off of the other, and then it's just a different reading experience because of something that you just recently read that you maybe didn't know before. So, yeah, that sounds very intriguing to me.
[00:37:42] ANNE: Yes. Okay, I have a book for you that I didn't anticipate talking about today. It will be brand new at the time this episode airs. It's a non-fiction memoir-ish work by Beth Ann Fennelly called The Irish Goodbye. Now, if you know her, it's probably from her pre-COVID collection that came out like 2017, 2018 called Heating and Cooling.
RUTH: I do know her, and I know her actually because she wrote this book Great with Child, which I read when I was pregnant with my son.
ANNE: She did.
RUTH: So that's how I heard about her originally, but yeah, I love her writing.
ANNE: Well, I'm glad to hear that. I'm really excited for this collection, which I picked up on a whim. It was not what I expected. So first of all, I loved Heating and Cooling, which is a collection of micro-memoirs. All the works in there are very, very short. And this new collection called The Irish Goodbye also has the subtitle Micro-Memoirs. But there are maybe a half dozen essays in here that are quite long.
[00:38:46] I love the micro-memoirs for you, but I also love the long essays. But I need to give, I think, two important not-at-all-related caveats. One is readers, if you're thinking, "Oh, I remember Anne talking about The Irish Goodbye," well, you might because we will have done our Spring Book Preview library chat that will have aired before this episode aired. This is like a little time warp What Should I Read Next? moment. That Spring Book Preview hasn't happened yet at the time of recording, but I will have talked about this book there by the time this episode airs. So that may be it.
But also, this is not the same The Irish Goodbye as the novel, the debut novel by Heather Aimee O'Neill that I talked about in the Fall Book Preview we had. This is a different book with the same title. And Beth Ann Fennelly wrote a Substack about that that's really funny. Because that does happen sometimes in publishing.
[00:39:35] But the other big caveat I need to give is that it's no secret, if you know Beth Ann Fennelly's work or right at the beginning of her story, that she was very close to her beloved sister who died young when she was 30, 30-something. And that is a theme that she revisits frequently in her work and is ever present. I mean, the Irish Goodbye of the title is about her sister.
So as two sisters embark on this story, potentially together, I want you to know that going in. There could be a lot here that is so good and poignant and important and meaningful and fun to discuss here. And also, I mean, you can see the end also, I think.
RUTH: Yeah, I appreciate that perspective. But indeed, it sounds, again, very interesting, something that I think would be ultimately, for me. Maybe I would see how my sister feels about that and before diving straight in. I actually didn't know that she had a new book coming out. I think it could be really interesting and work for us. I like also, like you said, there's like micro memoirs, but also longer essays. Sort of the mix of the two is also intriguing.
[00:40:48] ANNE: Yeah. Okay. But let me tell you a little bit about them. She keeps revisiting the theme of married love and just different tiny four to seven line little micro memoirs, I call them poems if I didn't know better, that are pithy and punchy and often funny. There's the same recurring short little punchy pithy pieces about the loss of her sister.
But there were some long pieces in this book that were so insightful and powerful and just not what I expected because they were not micro. They were fully fleshed out essays about things like moving to a tiny town where she did not know a soul and didn't speak the language in the Czech Republic right after she graduated from college to be an English teacher and how hard and lonely and overwhelming that year was in so many ways and how her understanding of that time completely shifted when she revisited it decades later when she... gosh, I think she was close to the town for work and decided to like pop over and pay a visit. And the story of what it was like then and just like struggling to speak the language in a country she did not know, I wonder if that would feel a certain way to both you and your sister for different reasons.
[00:42:03] She tells this amazing story called The Roomies which feels like a found/built family situation with her and four of her college roommates and how they bonded from the get-go and have been crucial in each other's lives ever since they went to college together several decades ago.
But my favorite piece and the one that makes me want to rave about this whole collection is called Dear Viewer of My Naked Body. And it starts with her going to like dinner, a cocktail party at her friend's house. Her friend is hosting an artist passing through her Mississippi town and the artist is doing this collection.
You know what? All the details don't matter though they are fascinating and you will hear all about the artistic career of Robert Tannen and how he came to embark on this series of nudes in portraiture. But Beth Ann Fennelly tells the story of how to her great surprise in no small part due to her like "I'm 50 now, whatever, no regrets, life's too short, who really cares, like just go for it," she's like "Sure you can paint me nude."
[00:43:13] And she writes about her thought process and what the experience was like. I am still like aghast. I don't know if you can hear me like kind of smiling like with this "what in the world?" expression on my face. But the amount of joy and life as she describes the way he made her feel seen and the way he just celebrated the humanity of everyone in a way that she did not see coming when she signed up for this project. It was powerful to read and also just so dang fun and good for the soul. How does all that sound?
RUTH: Amazing. Again, you totally surprised me because when you started talking about this book I was not expecting it to go in all of those directions. So indeed I'm definitely intrigued. I don't know that Beth has read any Beth Ann Fennelly but for sure I think this should go on our list.
[00:44:07] ANNE: I'm delighted to hear it. We could keep going for days but I think that's a nice tight three/four. Let's keep it right there. Ruth, of the books we talked about today, they were Forgotten on Sunday by Valérie Perrin in that Hildegarde Serle translation, we did a little side note for The Good Life by Virginie Grimaldi, then we talked about Trust Her by Flynn Berry and The Irish Goodbye by Beth Ann Fennelly, which is just about out by the time we're talking today. So I think they're all fair game. But of those books, what are you thinking? What are you most inclined to read next with Beth? What do you think she'll be most inclined to read next? Choose your own adventure when you answer.
RUTH: I think I'm definitely going to take this whole list and talk about it with her but I have a feeling that we're going to go with Trust Her. It's my guess. I can let you know if I'm right.
[00:44:56] ANNE: Well, I can't wait to hear what happens next and how that ends up for you and where it leads you both in your reading lives and you know what kind of good conversations and connections come out of these books. Ruth, this has been a pleasure. Thanks so much for talking books with me today.
RUTH: Thank you so much, Anne. I really enjoyed this conversation and getting a bit more insight into my reading life and just chatting with you.
ANNE: Hey, readers, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Ruth today and I'd love to hear what you think she should read next. Find the full list of titles we talked about at whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com.
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